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Concerning Non-White, Second Age Hobbits, Focusing On The Books And Tolkien's Writings : tolkienfans
C'est long, quelques extraits :
« I've seen a lot of people holding forth about how, because of the travel limitations of the period, it's just simply IMPOSSIBLE for darker-skinned people to have existed outside Rhun and Harad in the Second Age. But the fact is that individual people, and whole populations, DO move from place to place throughout history, sometimes across VERY long distances. For instance, we have evidence of Black people in England going back to Roman times--in other words, Black people lived in England before English people (i.e., Anglo-Saxons) did. There are many other examples in history.
We do know that Hobbits had a range of skin tones, and that Harfoots were "browner of skin" than the other hobbits. Tolkien doesn't say how MUCH browner. You can make an assumption that they would have been light brown or olive-skinned, or you can assume that they were quite dark, but based on the text itself, all of these are just that--assumptions. »
« honestly, in a fictional universe that includes walking trees, shape-shifting man-bears, stars that are actually dragon-killing sailing ships, and whatever the hell Tom Bombadil is, ethnically diverse Hobbit communities are not really where I find the breaking point for my suspension of disbelief. »
« "Absurd." The Tolkien who was shopping around LOTR and the Silmarillion to publishers characterized as "absurd" the idea that those works could form the foundation of some English or Northern European mythology. »
« It's true, though, that the Hobbits themselves reflect England. But not an ancient, prehistoric, mythological England, really. The Hobbits are quite anachronistically modeled after English people of Tolkien's own lifetime (...) But someone made an interesting point when this recent conversation got started: Tolkien lived in Birmingham, a city whose black population has a long history. Parts of the Shire are indeed modeled after Birmingham and the greater West Midlands region. »
« I’m not saying there definitely, without a doubt, had to have been non-white hobbits in Middle-earth in the Second Age. What I’m contending is that we ought to leave space for fans to dream. »
« I've seen a lot of people holding forth about how, because of the travel limitations of the period, it's just simply IMPOSSIBLE for darker-skinned people to have existed outside Rhun and Harad in the Second Age. But the fact is that individual people, and whole populations, DO move from place to place throughout history, sometimes across VERY long distances. For instance, we have evidence of Black people in England going back to Roman times--in other words, Black people lived in England before English people (i.e., Anglo-Saxons) did. There are many other examples in history.
We do know that Hobbits had a range of skin tones, and that Harfoots were "browner of skin" than the other hobbits. Tolkien doesn't say how MUCH browner. You can make an assumption that they would have been light brown or olive-skinned, or you can assume that they were quite dark, but based on the text itself, all of these are just that--assumptions. »
« honestly, in a fictional universe that includes walking trees, shape-shifting man-bears, stars that are actually dragon-killing sailing ships, and whatever the hell Tom Bombadil is, ethnically diverse Hobbit communities are not really where I find the breaking point for my suspension of disbelief. »
« "Absurd." The Tolkien who was shopping around LOTR and the Silmarillion to publishers characterized as "absurd" the idea that those works could form the foundation of some English or Northern European mythology. »
« It's true, though, that the Hobbits themselves reflect England. But not an ancient, prehistoric, mythological England, really. The Hobbits are quite anachronistically modeled after English people of Tolkien's own lifetime (...) But someone made an interesting point when this recent conversation got started: Tolkien lived in Birmingham, a city whose black population has a long history. Parts of the Shire are indeed modeled after Birmingham and the greater West Midlands region. »
« I’m not saying there definitely, without a doubt, had to have been non-white hobbits in Middle-earth in the Second Age. What I’m contending is that we ought to leave space for fans to dream. »
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1490621017743634436.html
À propos des polémiques lancées par les fachos quand ils ont vu des acteurs noirs sur les affiches de la nouvelle série.
(via Riff)
EDIT : Et si faut vraiment parler lore. La série s'appelle Rings of Power, et au moins un anneau donné aux humains a été donné à un Easterling (Khamûl l'oriental qui venait du Rhûn) qui n'étaient probablement pas blanc. Et sur les 7 anneaux données aux 7 clans Nains, 4 clans viennent aussi du Rhûn et ne sont probablement pas tous blancs non plus.
Qui plus est les migrations existent aussi dans la Terre du Milieu (et toutes les races sont concernées, Hobbits compris), et le Gondor étant très proche du Harad, ya forcément eu des migrations entre les 2 territoires, comme des marchands ou des familles qui fuient la guerre par exemple (Au 3ème Âge, le Harad a été un temps sous la suzeraineté du Gondor, et les 2 territoires ont longtemps été en guerre. Tensions qui ont commencées au 2nd Âge d'ailleurs, période durant laquelle se passe la série d'Amazon https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Haradrim#Second_Age )
Bref, la Terre du Milieu est probablement peuplé de plein de gens non blancs.
À propos des polémiques lancées par les fachos quand ils ont vu des acteurs noirs sur les affiches de la nouvelle série.
(via Riff)
EDIT : Et si faut vraiment parler lore. La série s'appelle Rings of Power, et au moins un anneau donné aux humains a été donné à un Easterling (Khamûl l'oriental qui venait du Rhûn) qui n'étaient probablement pas blanc. Et sur les 7 anneaux données aux 7 clans Nains, 4 clans viennent aussi du Rhûn et ne sont probablement pas tous blancs non plus.
Qui plus est les migrations existent aussi dans la Terre du Milieu (et toutes les races sont concernées, Hobbits compris), et le Gondor étant très proche du Harad, ya forcément eu des migrations entre les 2 territoires, comme des marchands ou des familles qui fuient la guerre par exemple (Au 3ème Âge, le Harad a été un temps sous la suzeraineté du Gondor, et les 2 territoires ont longtemps été en guerre. Tensions qui ont commencées au 2nd Âge d'ailleurs, période durant laquelle se passe la série d'Amazon https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Haradrim#Second_Age )
Bref, la Terre du Milieu est probablement peuplé de plein de gens non blancs.
Nouvel album prévu pour avril prochain
Avec un extrait de la conférence E3 2018 de Devolver ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnY0gBglivI&t=341s )
Ne pas se fier à la note imdb, les racistes et autres réacs se sont fait une joie de la plomber (et c'est pas la 1ère fois que je vois ça sur imdb).
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-simpsons-apu-racist_n_3956603
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2020-02-25/it-just-didnt-feel-right-why-hank-azaria-retired-apu-in-the-simpsons
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apu_Nahasapeemapetilon#Accusations_of_racial_stereotyping
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-simpsons-apu-racist_n_3956603
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2020-02-25/it-just-didnt-feel-right-why-hank-azaria-retired-apu-in-the-simpsons
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apu_Nahasapeemapetilon#Accusations_of_racial_stereotyping
(via Riff)
(spoiler : oui)
« The story of a group of 1980s punk artists who started organizing and playing desert shows that later inspired Burning Man, Coachella, and Lollapalooza. »
https://www.mowno.com/disques/documentaire-desolation-center/
https://www.mowno.com/disques/documentaire-desolation-center/